Episode 1 (Season 9): When Feedback Makes an Employee Cry… And You… What the Hell Happens Now?

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You’re about to listen to an episode of What
the Hell Just Happened?

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Narrator: Join Paul Edwards and his guests as they
discuss interesting HR topics and solve some

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Narrator: of our listeners submitted questions.

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Paul Edwards: And occasionally I’ll go off topic to talk
about whatever I want.

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Paul Edwards: Think barbecue, space exploration,
growing your business,

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Paul Edwards: and things that interest all of us.

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Paul Edwards: Hey, in today’s show,
we’re going to kind of go down the front

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Paul Edwards: lines and talk about giving people feedback.
Mostly negative feedback will give you a few

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Paul Edwards: scenarios. There’s a little bit of a human
condition here.

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Paul Edwards: We’ve got some methodologies,
and by the end of the show I will probably

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Paul Edwards: cause a few divorces. So I hope you enjoy
what goes on today.

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Paul Edwards: On what the hell just happened.

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Paul Edwards: All right. We’re just going to kind of jump
into today’s show. But before we do, I just

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Paul Edwards: want to say that I’m going to rename what the
hell just happened to in front of one fern?

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Paul Edwards: There was a. There. If you ever saw Zach
Galifianakis.

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Paul Edwards: I can’t even say his name.

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Paul Edwards: He had a great show Between Two Ferns.

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CeCe Delgado: I’ve seen clips from it.

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Paul Edwards: We have one.

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CeCe Delgado: We have one fern. It’s not

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CeCe Delgado: a fern. There’s a fern.

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Paul Edwards: It’s some.

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CeCe Delgado: Monstera.

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Paul Edwards: It’s a monstera.

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CeCe Delgado: Yeah.

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Paul Edwards: On either side of a monstera.

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Paul Edwards: Whatever. All right. On this episode of What
the Hell Just Happened?

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Paul Edwards: CeCe and I are going to go into kind of a,
I don’t know,

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Paul Edwards: I don’t know if it’s a touchy subject or not.

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Paul Edwards: We’re going to talk about feedback,
but more specifically I think CeCe has some

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Paul Edwards: knowledge to drop on us on kind of what to do
when you give someone coaching and they,

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Paul Edwards: and it doesn’t come back very well.

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Paul Edwards: So. Yeah. Some of the examples that we’re
going to give you,

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Paul Edwards: I mean, include things like you,
you talk to them and,

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Paul Edwards: you know, you’ve talked to us and we’re like,
you need to get them to acknowledge that this

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Paul Edwards: has happened. They’re like,
I ain’t signing that. Or I’m taking it home

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Paul Edwards: to my lawyer or whatever that looks like.

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CeCe Delgado: Or like we’ve seen employees do.

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CeCe Delgado: I know my rights. I don’t have to stay here.

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Paul Edwards: I don’t have to stay here. I don’t have to do
any of this. Or they leave in the middle of

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Paul Edwards: the shift because they’re mad. Before I get
into this,

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Paul Edwards: though, I do want to preface this with,
people receiving feedback is difficult in and

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Paul Edwards: of itself. So, you know,
frame of mind, context,

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Paul Edwards: how they’re feeling. I don’t want to go too
deep into this.

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Paul Edwards: Maybe I do. I mean, how you were raised,
like,

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Paul Edwards: you know, not all of us were raised to
receive feedback.

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Paul Edwards: And sometimes it feels personal,
even when it’s not.

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Paul Edwards: Yeah. People who give feedback aren’t always
the best at giving it and it feels more

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Paul Edwards: accusatory. People likewise,
who receive it feel accused,

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Paul Edwards: even sometimes when you’re like,
I’m really not,

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Paul Edwards: I’m just trying to talk to you about this
problem.

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Paul Edwards: Yeah. I think at the heart of this CeCe,
we,

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Paul Edwards: we came up with this,
this method, which I think is kind of an

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Paul Edwards: awesome method because we’ve kept it for over
a decade.

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Paul Edwards: It’s called the FIRR Method©.

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Paul Edwards: And it’s basically, you know,
you state a fact,

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Paul Edwards: you talk about the impact You talk about the
reason,

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Paul Edwards: you know, you bring up the reason why we’re
talking about this. You know, why is this

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Paul Edwards: important and why is it something that we
need to address with you?

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Paul Edwards: And then you try to make a request.

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Paul Edwards: And I can even say in some instances,
you could be down a path where you add a C to

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Paul Edwards: the and it becomes the FIRRC.

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Paul Edwards: And it’s like, hey, the consequence here is,
is if you’re going to continue to not choose

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Paul Edwards: to not be here on time,
we’re going to choose not to work together

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Paul Edwards: anymore. Right? But that’s not and sometimes
it’s implied.

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Paul Edwards: And I think sometimes actually people feel
that there’s a,

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Paul Edwards: it’s a threat when you don’t,
as an employer,

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Paul Edwards: intend for it to be a threat.

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Paul Edwards: So if you don’t know about the FIRR Method©,
we’re going to put in the show notes so that

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Paul Edwards: you can link into it and kind of take a look
at it.

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Paul Edwards: I have used this with friends when I’ve had
to have a conversation with them.

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Paul Edwards: I have had my spouse use it on me.

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Paul Edwards: I don’t have her anymore.

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Paul Edwards: I. Yeah, you’re like,
just keep talking, Paul.

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Paul Edwards: Just dig yourself a hole.

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Paul Edwards: You know, I mean, you know,
the fact is, is the way you’re chewing your

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Paul Edwards: food right now is really pissing me off.

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CeCe Delgado: Yeah.

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Paul Edwards: And the impact is that it’s pissing me off.

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Paul Edwards: And the reason why I’m talking to you is
because, you know, it’s upsetting me. And

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Paul Edwards: the, you know, the request is you stop
chewing.

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CeCe Delgado: Yeah. And the consequences.

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CeCe Delgado: I’m not going to listen to you chew anymore
one way or the other.

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Paul Edwards: Yeah, one way or the other. You could choose
to keep doing that. But we were not going to

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Paul Edwards: be married anymore. I hope she doesn’t hear
this because she knows.

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Paul Edwards: I’m just kidding. I really think the world of
her.

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Paul Edwards: Nonetheless, I probably just got myself in
trouble.

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Paul Edwards: Look, in the context of work I think to
protect your culture,

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Paul Edwards: this is one of those really important things
is to be able to have these kinds of

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Paul Edwards: conversations. And from my experience working
with myself and even working with my own

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Paul Edwards: managers over time is about nobody wants to
have these conversations.

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CeCe Delgado: Yeah, No, I’d rather poke my eyes out.

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Paul Edwards: Yeah. Nobody trains you to do it.

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Paul Edwards: And I think sometimes that’s why HR people
get a bad rap.

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Paul Edwards: Maybe you lose touch with the impact you have
on other people. It’s like, I got to have

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Paul Edwards: this conversation with you and we’re going to
go through it in a small business.

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Paul Edwards: Like we work with small business being even
50 employees.

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Paul Edwards: You see the person that you’ve had tough
conversations with.

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Paul Edwards: There’s no, there’s no,
you know, you don’t go hide from people

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Paul Edwards: afterwards, right? So you want to get into
some scenarios.

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CeCe Delgado: Sure.

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Paul Edwards: All right. I’m going to pick the first one.
Okay. The employee feels a write up is

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Paul Edwards: unfair. Because this is the first they’re
hearing about it.

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Paul Edwards: Or at least that’s what they’re saying.
They’re like, I, I have no idea. I’ve been

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Paul Edwards: late 12 times. I have no recollection that
I’ve been in three screaming matches with

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Paul Edwards: three different patients over the last four
months.

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Paul Edwards: They don’t they don’t remember any of that.
So this is the first that

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Paul Edwards: they’ve been notified.

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CeCe Delgado: Yeah. Yeah.

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Paul Edwards: I feel like I’ve got HR sarcasm going on
here.

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Paul Edwards: But that’s going to be what happens probably
during this. Okay.

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Paul Edwards: Okay. Valid or not? Yeah.

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Paul Edwards: They feel like this isn’t fair.

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Paul Edwards: This is the first I’ve heard of it. And oh my
gosh, it’s in writing. And I’ve got

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Paul Edwards: to acknowledge.

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CeCe Delgado: Yeah, yeah. So I think there’s a lot of ways
people come about it.

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CeCe Delgado: And some of them are not the employees fault
and some of them are the way we’re delivering

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CeCe Delgado: the feedback and some of it well,
the easiest way to combat that is if we’re

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CeCe Delgado: actually taking notes of when we talk to them
about it.

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Paul Edwards: In the past.

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CeCe Delgado: Yeah. So that instead of the conversation
being,

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CeCe Delgado: you know, we’ve talked about this a bunch and
they’re like, no, what?

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CeCe Delgado: No, what? What are you talking about?

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CeCe Delgado: But if you come and you say,
okay, on, you know,

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CeCe Delgado: X date, we talked about this and this is what
we agreed on.

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CeCe Delgado: And then on X date, we followed up and this,
this part was still happening or whatever

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CeCe Delgado: that looks like. And then on X day,
when you have that documentation and you can

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CeCe Delgado: present it in a way that is less your
opinion,

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CeCe Delgado: right, than it lands

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CeCe Delgado: differently. Yeah, yeah.

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Paul Edwards: Okay. So who is? Okay,
so we got to say who this is on.

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Paul Edwards: It’s on you as a manager or owner.

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Paul Edwards: If they’ve been in three yelling matches with
other people and you haven’t really been

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Paul Edwards: sitting down with them going,
you know, even though you kind of I

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Paul Edwards: understand why this got off the rails,
but you can’t be the one that escalates this.

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Paul Edwards: So if you are not having conversations with
people about them being late or,

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Paul Edwards: you know, let’s keep it simple,
let’s keep it something like or not charting

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Paul Edwards: something properly or not parking in the
right place.

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Paul Edwards: They keep parking where the patients are
supposed to park. If you are not having these

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Paul Edwards: conversations, then it’s kind of on you when
they all of a sudden feel ambushed.

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CeCe Delgado: Absolutely. And sometimes it’s really simple
stuff like,

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CeCe Delgado: hey, you made these typos or some sort of
smaller error.

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CeCe Delgado: But if you’re starting to sense that it is a
repetitive thing that the first time you’re

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CeCe Delgado: talking to them, it’s not sticking.

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CeCe Delgado: Second time is like, oh,
they might have just forgotten. But then when

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CeCe Delgado: you’re starting to get to that third and
fourth time, you better start documenting

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CeCe Delgado: because it’s going to keep escalating,
right?

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CeCe Delgado: You can almost be certain that there’s going
to be a fourth and fifth and sixth and

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CeCe Delgado: seventh time. And so if you’re not starting
to arm yourself with that documentation and

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CeCe Delgado: even better, something that to remind
yourself how you phrased it,

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CeCe Delgado: what you said, some details so that you’re
not trying to recall weeks down the road.

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CeCe Delgado: What is it that I specifically said?

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CeCe Delgado: And what did I say I was going to follow up?

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CeCe Delgado: Or what did I say was going to happen next?

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Paul Edwards: When I created our software over at CEDR,
when I created backstageHR® and I started

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Paul Edwards: giving its first functionality,
the first thing, one of the first

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Paul Edwards: functionalities we gave it beyond upload a
document was being able to put a note.

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Paul Edwards: Yeah. And I used to give this hint all the
time to people like to managers.

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Paul Edwards: Even if you decide not to say something to
someone,

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Paul Edwards: which by the way, I don’t recommend most
time,

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Paul Edwards: you’re going to need to get to that quicker
sooner rather than later.

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Paul Edwards: But making notes to yourself and sticking it
in that employee’s file about a date and a

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Paul Edwards: time and a thing really helps when you go to
speak to what you just said.

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Paul Edwards: When you go back in the file and you’re
saying,

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Paul Edwards: I got to talk to this employee,
and you look in and go, wow,

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Paul Edwards: I really have been making notes.

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Paul Edwards: I’ve been thinking about this. There are
other issues that are going on.

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CeCe Delgado: Yeah. It really helps when you’re sort of
emotional in the moment when once something

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CeCe Delgado: finally blows up and you can sit and say,
am I overreacting to this or do I have a

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CeCe Delgado: bigger problem? Yeah,
you can see the whole big picture.

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Paul Edwards: Yeah. So when an employee blows up and
they’re like,

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Paul Edwards: it’s the first I’m hearing about this. I
mean,

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Paul Edwards: what do we do? What’s the what’s the next
step?

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Paul Edwards: We’ve talked about what you shouldn’t do.

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Paul Edwards: But let’s say, you know,
you’ve done a reasonable job.

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Paul Edwards: You’ve talked to them before and they’re and
they just are blowing up about it.

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Paul Edwards: How do you get how do you talk them off the
edge?

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CeCe Delgado: Well, I, I think any time there’s a real
emotional reaction and that’s one of our

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CeCe Delgado: other scenarios. It is a little bit of
empathy can go a long way,

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CeCe Delgado: right? We don’t need to push back and argue.

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Paul Edwards: I know you’re upset right now. I get it.

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Paul Edwards: But this is something that we still have to
talk about.

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CeCe Delgado: Exactly.

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Paul Edwards: We still have to do something about this.

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CeCe Delgado: Yeah.

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Paul Edwards: Like circle back. Can we circle back in ten
minutes?

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Paul Edwards: Can we circle back later today?

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CeCe Delgado: Yeah. Maybe, like, why don’t we go home?

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CeCe Delgado: If it’s late in the day,
let’s go home tonight.

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CeCe Delgado: We’ll cool off. Let’s talk about this a
little clearheaded tomorrow. Come up with a

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CeCe Delgado: plan for how we’re going to move forward from
this.

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Paul Edwards: I think another thing too,
just thinking about things that I say when

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Paul Edwards: I’m teaching courses at universities or I’m
doing whatever,

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Paul Edwards: one of the questions comes from the audience.
When we start talking about progressive

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Paul Edwards: corrective coaching and documentation and
everything is people are like, well, how do I

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Paul Edwards: start this? Like, how do I,
you know, I haven’t been doing this.

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Paul Edwards: So as soon as I start doing this thing that
you’re talking about.

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Paul Edwards: Yeah. Aren’t people going to kind of be up in
arms and isn’t it going to be,

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Paul Edwards: you know, the implications could be kind of
confrontational.

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Paul Edwards: And my answer to that is I don’t have a
magic.

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Paul Edwards: I don’t have a magic answer to you need to
start doing this,

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Paul Edwards: but I do have something that you can use as
you onboard new people,

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Paul Edwards: which is to say the words during your first
90 days and beyond.

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Paul Edwards: You should expect feedback and it won’t
always be a.

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Paul Edwards: I don’t want you to think of it as negative
and positive, but most time when I’m giving

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Paul Edwards: feedback, I will focus on times when you’re
getting something right.

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Paul Edwards: There are. There will be times that I’m
asking for corrections and it might seem curt

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Paul Edwards: or something like that,
because we’re busy and we’re moving from

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Paul Edwards: subject to subject and doing things,
but setting them up to expect feedback and

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Paul Edwards: then finding ways to really give people
feedback are going to let you know whether

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Paul Edwards: they can receive it or not.

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Paul Edwards: And if someone immediately becomes defensive,

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Paul Edwards: like in their first couple of weeks,
when you give them something,

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Paul Edwards: then I would suggest you turn around and come
back and give them feedback again shortly

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Paul Edwards: thereafter. And if they’re still defensive
and they’re still if they become combative,

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Paul Edwards: they need to go. That’s it.

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Paul Edwards: You can’t fix people. I can’t make you take
feedback better.

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Paul Edwards: But culturally, I can’t protect everybody
else here.

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Paul Edwards: If I can’t tell you, I want you to fix
something.

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Paul Edwards: Does that mean that they never get upset or I
never get upset when someone gives me

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Paul Edwards: feedback I want to hear,
no, it doesn’t mean that.

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Paul Edwards: But anyway, I just thought I’d throw that in
there.

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Paul Edwards: Set that expectation. Next scenario.

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Paul Edwards: Which one do you want? Which one do you want
to talk about? Which one?

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Paul Edwards: The emotional reaction.

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Paul Edwards: We just talked about it.

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CeCe Delgado: So we talked about that.

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CeCe Delgado: I’ll I’ll maybe just add a little bit to
that.

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CeCe Delgado: Okay. Just like giving feedback is a skill
that most of us don’t practice enough.

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CeCe Delgado: And because it’s really hard,
it’s hard to do and.

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Paul Edwards: You don’t get a lot, you don’t get that many
opportunities unless you have kids. But then

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Paul Edwards: after a while, you just go,
you just make that noise. You just make some

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Paul Edwards: noise at them and point.

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CeCe Delgado: Yeah.

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Paul Edwards: And then shake your fist. And that’s the
feedback they get,

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Paul Edwards: which is stop it. You know, I had a friend
who had a dog

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Paul Edwards: named stop it, damn it.

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CeCe Delgado: But receiving feedback is a skill too.

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CeCe Delgado: Yeah. So I think that we see at least I have
seen a lot of times when people’s automatic

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CeCe Delgado: response is to cry. They’re younger,
they’re greener in their career,

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CeCe Delgado: they’re not as exercised.

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Paul Edwards: Jaded as you and I.

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CeCe Delgado: At receiving feedback.

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CeCe Delgado: And so I think a lot of that is just the
human condition,

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CeCe Delgado: right? No one wants to hear they’re doing
something wrong.

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CeCe Delgado: For most of us are not probably at our prime
emotional health.

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CeCe Delgado: Right. So so some tears or something.

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CeCe Delgado: Not as difficult to deal with as somebody who
gets like enraged or super defensive angry.

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Paul Edwards: It can be frustrating for a manager to be
trying to give someone feedback.

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Paul Edwards: And every time you try to give them feedback,

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Paul Edwards: they get upset and they kind of start to cry
because,

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Paul Edwards: I mean, nobody wants to make someone cry,
but it disempowers me as a manager if I’m

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Paul Edwards: trying to get through to you. And now I’ve
got you upset because again, that’s not what

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Paul Edwards: I’m here for. Yeah.

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CeCe Delgado: But I can feel a little manipulative
sometimes too.

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Paul Edwards: It can, it can to, you know,
from that backwards.

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Paul Edwards: But and I don’t think the employee means that
either. No.

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CeCe Delgado: Most of the time probably not.

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Paul Edwards: I think we had a conversation about this in
the office the other day.

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Paul Edwards: We were talking about it. I mean,
I confess that there for a long time,

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Paul Edwards: I would tend to tear up a little bit.

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CeCe Delgado: I can still remember the first time someone
came to me,

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CeCe Delgado: and I’ll say they didn’t do it in the nicest
way.

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CeCe Delgado: But man, the second they turned their back,
just you just were crying.

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Paul Edwards: Yeah. Well, I mean, I think when I was
sitting there,

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Paul Edwards: I mean, I mean, this is years ago because I
am very jaded now. Good luck getting me to

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Paul Edwards: cry. I just remember you’re thinking.

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Paul Edwards: I don’t want to cry. Don’t cry. Don’t cry.
Yeah.

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Paul Edwards: You know, the other person’s going through
that.

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CeCe Delgado: Yeah.

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Paul Edwards: I have also seen people grow out of it.

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CeCe Delgado: I have too. Yeah. And it’s a wonderful thing
because that emotional response,

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CeCe Delgado: when they’re stuck in it while you’re still
talking,

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CeCe Delgado: they can’t hear it. Then they can’t grow as
much from the feedback.

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CeCe Delgado: So it is a problem. I mean,
I’ve told people it’s difficult for me to

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CeCe Delgado: give you feedback and help.

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Paul Edwards: You’re going through this.

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CeCe Delgado: Be constructive when your response is to cry.

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Paul Edwards: You might sometimes you might ask,
what could I do different here? Or hey,

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Paul Edwards: let’s just take two minutes.

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Paul Edwards: Let’s just stop for a second. Okay.

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CeCe Delgado: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think some people to
have had really bad experiences in the past,

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CeCe Delgado: and it causes that because they’re reliving
some sort of pain from.

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Paul Edwards: I know what mine is. I remember mine.

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Paul Edwards: Yeah. I remember what made me first start to
cry on some kind of feedback.

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Paul Edwards: It was just kind of, you know,
it was a childhood thing.

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Paul Edwards: And I at the time, you would never know.

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Paul Edwards: But I can look back and I’m like,
I think that’s the thing that just kind of

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Paul Edwards: carried forward. Any time I felt accused of
something,

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Paul Edwards: which was how I received feedback.

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Paul Edwards: Military family here. I would just kind of
default to that thing.

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Paul Edwards: So again, you got to still run your business.

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Paul Edwards: You still got to give people feedback.

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Paul Edwards: Just know that a lot of people receive it
that way.

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CeCe Delgado: I’ve had people who have requested.

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CeCe Delgado: And so that’s something you could also offer
if you have somebody who has this trouble.

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CeCe Delgado: Just give me a heads up that we’re going to
be having a hard conversation so I

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CeCe Delgado: can get in that headspace.

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Paul Edwards: Cry before I get in.

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CeCe Delgado: Here. Yeah. So they can come in prepped to.

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CeCe Delgado: I know I’m going to hear something that might
make me cry.

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Paul Edwards: That might make me cry. Yeah.

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Paul Edwards: Not not such a bad thing.

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Paul Edwards: So this is different crying and what we’ll
call emotional is different than anger.

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Paul Edwards: Yeah. Than, than, you know,
that just that general pushback and that

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Paul Edwards: anger that comes up. So let’s talk about
anger.

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CeCe Delgado: Okay.

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Paul Edwards: Okay. I mean, the ways that I’ve seen this
and I’ve seen this so many times over the

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Paul Edwards: last 20 years come in from a,
you know, an HR help request where an

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Paul Edwards: employee just walks out on a shift because
they’re so angry or and we’ll talk about this

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Paul Edwards: last one a little more detail,
but I’ll just mention it. They like, won’t

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Paul Edwards: sign the right up. They’re so mad.

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Paul Edwards: They’re so mad about what’s going on.

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Paul Edwards: And I think what immediately comes out is,
what about.

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CeCe Delgado: Mhm.

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Paul Edwards: And you name someone else?

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Paul Edwards: What about this? What about that?

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Paul Edwards: Yeah. What do we do about that person who
storms out?

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Paul Edwards: Or who gets so angry that,
you know, you feel like again,

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Paul Edwards: it’s a different form of they can’t hear you
anymore.

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CeCe Delgado: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well,
the first thing is let them leave if they’re

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CeCe Delgado: trying to walk out or they’re pissed off,
just let them go.

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Paul Edwards: Let them go. Don’t get in front of them.

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CeCe Delgado: Yeah, yeah. And you just stop trying to
reason with them at that point.

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CeCe Delgado: Let them go. Let them cool off.

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CeCe Delgado: And then I mean, now you’ve got two problems
to deal with because you can’t just walk out

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CeCe Delgado: mid shift. Right. But let it happen.

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CeCe Delgado: You don’t want to put yourselves or your
patients in the crossfire.

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CeCe Delgado: It’s not worth it.

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Paul Edwards: So you’re looking for cooler heads to
prevail.

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CeCe Delgado: Yeah.

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Paul Edwards: I also want you to be careful about
reflecting when someone gets really mad the

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Paul Edwards: tendency, I don’t know for other people,
but for me,

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Paul Edwards: again, military family match it,
match it, you match,

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Paul Edwards: you match that power. Especially if you’re
like moving from place to place.

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Paul Edwards: And so every time as a male,
you landed in a new school in a new place,

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Paul Edwards: the first person you met was the,
the town bully.

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Paul Edwards: And I learned to match aggression with more
aggression.

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Paul Edwards: And that transcends into the rest of your
life sometimes.

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Paul Edwards: And fortunately, my parents saw it and they
got me some help on it.

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Paul Edwards: But I’m just saying human condition.

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Paul Edwards: This happens in the world.

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Paul Edwards: And when someone’s learned to match
aggression with aggression,

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Paul Edwards: even if you aren’t being aggressive as the
manager,

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Paul Edwards: that might be the thing that you get back.

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Paul Edwards: And I’m just going to say this again,
I don’t think you can talk someone out of

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Paul Edwards: that. I’m not sure you can train them out of
it.

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Paul Edwards: And if that’s who they are,
you have found another type of person who

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Paul Edwards: might not be a fit for your style of
management and your need for constant

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Paul Edwards: improvement or for, you know,
the standards in healthcare have to be

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Paul Edwards: maintained. You can’t have people getting mad
just because you tell them they’ve got to,

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Paul Edwards: you know, fix something or correct something.

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CeCe Delgado: Right.

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Paul Edwards: I like this one. I never thought of it.

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Paul Edwards: They investigate who complained about them.

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Paul Edwards: So who? Who narcked me out here?

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Paul Edwards: Who? Who? This. There’s no way you know about
this as my manager.

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Paul Edwards: And they already know.

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Paul Edwards: They already know who they suspect did this.

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Paul Edwards: So they go out on a personal investigation,
which is going to be fabulous.

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Paul Edwards: I’m telling you, it’s going to be great for
the team, morale,

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Paul Edwards: for morale, the team and everything

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Paul Edwards: else. What do you do?

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CeCe Delgado: Well, I’ve seen that manifest in a few
different ways.

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CeCe Delgado: Sometimes it’s a person who’s,
like, pissed off and which one of you told on

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CeCe Delgado: me. Sometimes it there’s some element of,
I think,

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CeCe Delgado: being genuine where they’re like,
who did I upset?

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CeCe Delgado: And I want to make it better.

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CeCe Delgado: So I don’t think it’s always nefarious,
but either way,

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CeCe Delgado: it’s not good. It’s it’s never okay.

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CeCe Delgado: Sometimes we have to be careful depending on
what the content of the conversation is.

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CeCe Delgado: Right? Because if they’re talking about like,
hey, this thing happened to me and I’m not

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CeCe Delgado: happy about it. Do you guys experience that?

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CeCe Delgado: They do have some ability to talk about those
things in the

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CeCe Delgado: office, but when it’s.

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Paul Edwards: Wait, wait, wait, I want to back,
back up. I want to make that what you just

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Paul Edwards: said more clear. Restate what you just said.

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CeCe Delgado: So if my going after my coaching is going to
my teammates and saying,

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CeCe Delgado: hey, this is what just happened to me,
they’re telling me this.

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Paul Edwards: Oh, gotcha. And your investigation is,
is are you being.

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CeCe Delgado: Yes.

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Paul Edwards: Did. You’re late all the time.

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CeCe Delgado: Yeah. Are you experiencing this,
too?

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Paul Edwards: Did you get in trouble for being late? Yeah.

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CeCe Delgado: Yeah. Yeah. That’s a different sort of a
conversation that they’re having with their

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CeCe Delgado: coworkers, right? And they have the right to
talk about what’s going on in the workplace.

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CeCe Delgado: What’s happening to them? Yep.

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CeCe Delgado: And that is depending on the content,
because there’s a way it can go left.

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CeCe Delgado: And if it’s just stirring up trouble.

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Paul Edwards: It’s different than who told on me.

391
00:20:42.590 –> 00:20:45.070
CeCe Delgado: Yes. Yes. Then you know some of that.

392
00:20:45.310 –> 00:20:47.350
CeCe Delgado: There’s not a lot that we can do about it.

393
00:20:47.990 –> 00:20:53.750
CeCe Delgado: But the. Who told on me or who’s doing this
or how did they find out about it is a very

394
00:20:53.750 –> 00:20:57.110
CeCe Delgado: different conversation that we don’t have to
let happen.

395
00:20:57.430 –> 00:21:00.910
CeCe Delgado: And in a lot of times,
it’s our duty to protect the rest of the

396
00:21:00.910 –> 00:21:06.710
CeCe Delgado: employees. In fact, from that person digging
in and harassing them and trying to find out

397
00:21:07.270 –> 00:21:11.710
CeCe Delgado: who went and appropriately let management
know that something was going on.

398
00:21:11.750 –> 00:21:13.668
Paul Edwards: Isn’t this like the hardest thing CeCe?

399
00:21:13.668 –> 00:21:19.790
Paul Edwards: Because you you need to address the problem,
but you know,

400
00:21:19.790 –> 00:21:23.990
Paul Edwards: it’s going to be, it’s going to cause a stink
fest out there amongst the group and that

401
00:21:23.990 –> 00:21:26.550
Paul Edwards: this person tends to go out and stir the pot
after,

402
00:21:26.590 –> 00:21:28.310
Paul Edwards: after you’ve had a conversation with them.

403
00:21:28.350 –> 00:21:33.270
CeCe Delgado: I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had to
go back to somebody who disclosed something

404
00:21:33.270 –> 00:21:36.270
CeCe Delgado: and had to say, listen,
there was no way for me to address that

405
00:21:36.270 –> 00:21:38.270
CeCe Delgado: without throwing you under the bus a little
bit.

406
00:21:38.910 –> 00:21:41.650
CeCe Delgado: Here’s the damage control I tried to do.

407
00:21:41.690 –> 00:21:42.770
CeCe Delgado: Right, but need you to be

408
00:21:42.770 –> 00:21:44.530
CeCe Delgado: aware. Yeah, this is.

409
00:21:44.570 –> 00:21:46.170
Paul Edwards: And I’m flying cover for you right now.

410
00:21:46.210 –> 00:21:48.170
Paul Edwards: Yeah. If it gets in, if anything comes of it,

411
00:21:48.170 –> 00:21:49.530
Paul Edwards: don’t you just need to let me know?

412
00:21:49.530 –> 00:21:50.250
CeCe Delgado: Exactly.

413
00:21:50.250 –> 00:21:53.690
Paul Edwards: I think to something that I try to do as a
manager,

414
00:21:54.130 –> 00:21:56.690
Paul Edwards: I think I’ve we’ve talked about this,
you know,

415
00:21:56.730 –> 00:22:01.890
Paul Edwards: between you and I is I will if I can,
I will try to provide cover.

416
00:22:02.290 –> 00:22:09.010
Paul Edwards: I will claim to have I will find a way that I
could have possibly found the problem myself

417
00:22:09.290 –> 00:22:11.810
Paul Edwards: and I will try to put myself in that
position.

418
00:22:12.690 –> 00:22:15.290
Paul Edwards: And try and take other people out of the line
of fire.

419
00:22:15.690 –> 00:22:19.970
Paul Edwards: I will also, you know,
I think this goes back to the what about ism.

420
00:22:20.210 –> 00:22:22.730
Paul Edwards: If I’m feeling frisky enough in the
conversation,

421
00:22:22.730 –> 00:22:25.570
Paul Edwards: I might say to them at the end of it,
you make no mistake here.

422
00:22:25.570 –> 00:22:26.770
Paul Edwards: This is between you and me.

423
00:22:26.770 –> 00:22:28.970
Paul Edwards: And this is a conversation we’re having right
now.

424
00:22:29.130 –> 00:22:32.090
Paul Edwards: And I don’t need you walking out of here and
causing even more problems.

425
00:22:32.130 –> 00:22:35.050
Paul Edwards: Yeah. you know, at that point,
I’m trying to get I’m trying to get

426
00:22:35.050 –> 00:22:36.690
Paul Edwards: somebody’s attention. Okay.

427
00:22:36.730 –> 00:22:38.090
Paul Edwards: I’ve seen this scenario a lot.

428
00:22:38.130 –> 00:22:40.470
Paul Edwards: You’ve moved. I’ll do the whole scenario.

429
00:22:40.870 –> 00:22:45.150
Paul Edwards: You have raised up an employee to manager and
you have.

430
00:22:45.190 –> 00:22:46.990
Paul Edwards: What do we. We did that podcast on it.

431
00:22:46.990 –> 00:22:47.430
Paul Edwards: We.

432
00:22:47.430 –> 00:22:48.190
CeCe Delgado: The Peter principle.

433
00:22:48.190 –> 00:22:53.550
Paul Edwards: Yeah. The Peter principle. You literally set
them up to fail and they manage the way that

434
00:22:53.550 –> 00:22:55.270
Paul Edwards: they were treated as a kid.

435
00:22:55.830 –> 00:22:57.350
Paul Edwards: And that wasn’t great.

436
00:22:57.350 –> 00:23:00.030
Paul Edwards: And so their parental,
they have no management skills.

437
00:23:00.030 –> 00:23:04.110
Paul Edwards: What they do have is the ability to be there
on time and be accountable around the duty,

438
00:23:04.150 –> 00:23:07.430
Paul Edwards: their own duties. But they’re terrible at
managing other people.

439
00:23:07.830 –> 00:23:12.990
Paul Edwards: Your team picks a leader out there somewhere
to come to you and tell you what the problems

440
00:23:12.990 –> 00:23:18.950
Paul Edwards: are, and now you have a real problem because
you have a duty to protect that team.

441
00:23:18.950 –> 00:23:22.270
Paul Edwards: So it’s tough to say now I got to go out and
tell this person,

442
00:23:22.310 –> 00:23:23.750
Paul Edwards: you’re not doing a good job.

443
00:23:24.630 –> 00:23:27.510
Paul Edwards: Here’s the problems. These are the
improvements you got to get. And that person

444
00:23:27.510 –> 00:23:30.190
Paul Edwards: walks out feeling like the entire team just
attacked them.

445
00:23:31.590 –> 00:23:36.510
Paul Edwards: Again, I don’t have a magic solution for this
other than to go back to the better the,

446
00:23:36.550 –> 00:23:41.330
Paul Edwards: the better you are at hiring and keeping
people who can receive feedback and give good

447
00:23:41.330 –> 00:23:42.770
Paul Edwards: feedback. The better off you’re going to be
in the long run.

448
00:23:42.770 –> 00:23:43.770
CeCe Delgado: Yeah.

449
00:23:43.890 –> 00:23:47.370
Paul Edwards: Yeah. The final one is my favorite.

450
00:23:48.970 –> 00:23:51.570
Paul Edwards: This is the person who won’t sign,
you know,

451
00:23:51.610 –> 00:23:54.050
Paul Edwards: and by the way, everybody,
this is HR lesson.

452
00:23:54.050 –> 00:23:55.890
Paul Edwards: We’ve taught it over and over again.

453
00:23:56.290 –> 00:23:58.050
Paul Edwards: We’re not asking you to agree to it.

454
00:23:58.090 –> 00:24:00.410
Paul Edwards: Right. We are not asking you.

455
00:24:00.570 –> 00:24:03.250
Paul Edwards: We’re not asking you to agree to it.

456
00:24:03.250 –> 00:24:06.570
Paul Edwards: As in you’re signing an agreement that you
did this this bad thing.

457
00:24:06.570 –> 00:24:08.490
CeCe Delgado: I did this… Yeah.

458
00:24:08.530 –> 00:24:12.090
Paul Edwards: We don’t even need you to agree that what you
did was wrong.

459
00:24:12.370 –> 00:24:13.930
Paul Edwards: We’re not getting you to agree.

460
00:24:13.970 –> 00:24:19.530
Paul Edwards: All we want is for you to sign a piece of
paper acknowledging that we had the

461
00:24:19.530 –> 00:24:23.130
Paul Edwards: conversation, whether it’s correct or not.

462
00:24:23.170 –> 00:24:27.690
Paul Edwards: We just need you to acknowledge. Now,
I know in the heat of upset and receiving

463
00:24:27.690 –> 00:24:33.730
Paul Edwards: negative feedback, someone may not be able to
make that distinction between between the two

464
00:24:33.730 –> 00:24:36.250
Paul Edwards: things. That’s kind of my my point where I’m
like,

465
00:24:36.250 –> 00:24:40.140
Paul Edwards: I’m if you’re not going to acknowledge that
we had the conversation that I don’t know how

466
00:24:40.140 –> 00:24:43.500
Paul Edwards: we go forward. Yes. But again,
we talked in an earlier scenario,

467
00:24:43.500 –> 00:24:45.340
Paul Edwards: sometimes cooler heads prevail.

468
00:24:45.620 –> 00:24:49.340
Paul Edwards: And so just because you say,
you know, I’m not signing this.

469
00:24:51.940 –> 00:24:53.660
Paul Edwards: Other gestures usually come into that.

470
00:24:53.700 –> 00:24:57.460
Paul Edwards: If you’re watching the YouTube channel,
you can see what they are. I’m just kidding.

471
00:24:57.500 –> 00:24:58.980
Paul Edwards: Sometimes cooler heads prevail.

472
00:24:59.340 –> 00:25:02.820
Paul Edwards: There’s nothing wrong with giving somebody a
little bit of space and coming back and

473
00:25:02.820 –> 00:25:04.660
Paul Edwards: having a conversation with them.

474
00:25:04.940 –> 00:25:07.460
Paul Edwards: And, and then maybe in a calmer way,
be able to say,

475
00:25:07.460 –> 00:25:12.020
Paul Edwards: look, I just I’m asking you to just
acknowledge that we had the conversation. You

476
00:25:12.020 –> 00:25:14.700
Paul Edwards: know, your other choices are to have
witnesses in the room and in a small

477
00:25:14.700 –> 00:25:16.100
Paul Edwards: business. That’s not great.

478
00:25:16.340 –> 00:25:21.940
Paul Edwards: Yeah. It’s not absolutely necessary that you
hold them down and make them sign the piece

479
00:25:21.940 –> 00:25:23.700
Paul Edwards: of paper. But I guarantee you, if they’re not
willing to

480
00:25:23.700 –> 00:25:25.060
Paul Edwards: acknowledge the conversation, they’re not.

481
00:25:25.180 –> 00:25:29.180
CeCe Delgado: They’re not going to improve from it. Yeah.
But you could make a note.

482
00:25:29.220 –> 00:25:30.540
CeCe Delgado: We talked on this date.

483
00:25:30.540 –> 00:25:33.820
CeCe Delgado: They refused to sign it and put that in their
file and put that there.

484
00:25:34.020 –> 00:25:39.480
CeCe Delgado: But I mean, I think the other thing that
helps is having a policy in your handbook so

485
00:25:39.480 –> 00:25:43.840
CeCe Delgado: that they know what to expect if they get a
write up at some point that.

486
00:25:43.880 –> 00:25:44.880
Paul Edwards: We’re going to ask.

487
00:25:44.880 –> 00:25:47.800
CeCe Delgado: You, your expectation is it’s an
acknowledgment.

488
00:25:47.840 –> 00:25:51.720
CeCe Delgado: Yeah. And doesn’t mean you agree and you have
a,

489
00:25:52.000 –> 00:25:53.640
CeCe Delgado: an ability to respond to it.

490
00:25:53.680 –> 00:25:55.880
Paul Edwards: Yeah. We’ve had employees that won’t sign the
employee handbook.

491
00:25:55.880 –> 00:25:56.800
CeCe Delgado: Yeah. Yeah.

492
00:25:56.800 –> 00:26:01.520
Paul Edwards: And we’re like, but there’s a policy in the
handbook that says that if you won’t

493
00:26:01.560 –> 00:26:04.240
Paul Edwards: acknowledge documents,
that could be a reason why we don’t work with

494
00:26:04.240 –> 00:26:07.040
Paul Edwards: you anymore. Yeah. And then they and then
they go,

495
00:26:07.080 –> 00:26:08.560
Paul Edwards: well, I didn’t sign it.

496
00:26:09.000 –> 00:26:11.640
Paul Edwards: And we’re like, okay,
good.

497
00:26:11.680 –> 00:26:13.680
Paul Edwards: Not a good point. Doesn’t help.

498
00:26:13.720 –> 00:26:15.880
Paul Edwards: It’s a policy. It still applies to you.

499
00:26:16.440 –> 00:26:20.200
Paul Edwards: So you know, when someone won’t sign a write
up,

500
00:26:20.240 –> 00:26:22.160
Paul Edwards: you have these choices that we just gave you.

501
00:26:23.080 –> 00:26:24.680
Paul Edwards: You can’t make them sign it.

502
00:26:24.720 –> 00:26:27.240
Paul Edwards: Right. You can’t make them receive feedback.

503
00:26:27.280 –> 00:26:32.520
Paul Edwards: I think depending on what it is that you’re
talking to them about them not signing and

504
00:26:32.520 –> 00:26:37.060
Paul Edwards: acknowledging. I think for the most part
elevates this to a place where you’re

505
00:26:37.060 –> 00:26:38.900
Paul Edwards: probably not going to be able to go forward.

506
00:26:38.940 –> 00:26:42.100
Paul Edwards: Yeah. And if they do sign it,
it’ll be malicious,

507
00:26:42.700 –> 00:26:47.940
Paul Edwards: you know. Compliance. Did we solve anything
here today?

508
00:26:48.780 –> 00:26:49.780
CeCe Delgado: I hope so.

509
00:26:49.780 –> 00:26:50.460
Paul Edwards: I think we.

510
00:26:50.460 –> 00:26:51.940
CeCe Delgado: I think we gave people some.

511
00:26:52.260 –> 00:26:53.460
Paul Edwards: We feel your pain out there.

512
00:26:53.980 –> 00:26:56.620
CeCe Delgado: But. Yes. Yeah, yeah. It happens to all of
us.

513
00:26:56.660 –> 00:27:00.420
CeCe Delgado: Yeah. Even the most skilled at giving
feedback.

514
00:27:00.460 –> 00:27:01.580
CeCe Delgado: This stuff happens to.

515
00:27:01.620 –> 00:27:04.300
Paul Edwards: Because you’re talking to people who are not
skilled,

516
00:27:04.420 –> 00:27:05.940
Paul Edwards: skilled at receiving it.

517
00:27:05.980 –> 00:27:12.020
CeCe Delgado: Absolutely. Yeah. And so many other factors
could be at play than you’re giving feedback.

518
00:27:12.220 –> 00:27:13.740
CeCe Delgado: There could be something at home.

519
00:27:13.780 –> 00:27:15.100
Paul Edwards: Really bad things could be going on.

520
00:27:15.140 –> 00:27:20.500
CeCe Delgado: Yeah. I mean, we, we just don’t obviously
always know all of the details that someone’s

521
00:27:20.500 –> 00:27:23.540
CeCe Delgado: receiving the feedback through that lens.

522
00:27:23.580 –> 00:27:28.860
Paul Edwards: Yeah. Human side. Try to approach these
things with as much compassion as you

523
00:27:28.860 –> 00:27:36.710
Paul Edwards: possibly can. I think being really clear in
what you plan to say and I think that really

524
00:27:36.710 –> 00:27:39.710
Paul Edwards: helps a little, a little bit of rehearsal
sometimes.

525
00:27:39.710 –> 00:27:42.710
CeCe Delgado: I was just going to say,
I think saying it out loud.

526
00:27:42.990 –> 00:27:44.790
Paul Edwards: To maybe yourself.

527
00:27:44.790 –> 00:27:45.190
CeCe Delgado: Or.

528
00:27:45.190 –> 00:27:46.350
Paul Edwards: Your spouse or somebody.

529
00:27:46.350 –> 00:27:50.190
CeCe Delgado: Else. Yeah. Just even if it’s just a couple
of minutes before they come in and you’re by

530
00:27:50.190 –> 00:27:53.230
CeCe Delgado: yourself and you just let yourself actually
say the words.

531
00:27:53.230 –> 00:27:55.910
CeCe Delgado: Yeah, it can really help in the moment.

532
00:27:55.950 –> 00:27:59.910
CeCe Delgado: If, if you’re nervous or,
you know, for whatever reason,

533
00:27:59.910 –> 00:28:02.390
CeCe Delgado: this message is harder to, to deliver if
you’ve

534
00:28:02.430 –> 00:28:03.670
CeCe Delgado: actually practiced saying it.

535
00:28:03.670 –> 00:28:08.350
Paul Edwards: Yeah, compassion, a little practice,
have a little script.

536
00:28:08.630 –> 00:28:12.150
Paul Edwards: Sometimes there’s a few things there to help
your notes, like we talked about before. So

537
00:28:12.150 –> 00:28:15.830
Paul Edwards: you can kind of be confident in what it is
and the reason why you’re giving this kind of

538
00:28:15.830 –> 00:28:20.670
Paul Edwards: feedback, all these things being well
organised around this will help you if you’re

539
00:28:20.670 –> 00:28:23.270
Paul Edwards: just don’t want to do this and you’re awful
at it,

540
00:28:23.550 –> 00:28:25.350
Paul Edwards: it’ll help you be a little bit better.

541
00:28:25.750 –> 00:28:29.350
Paul Edwards: If you’re decent at doing this,
it’ll just make you that much more effective

542
00:28:29.350 –> 00:28:34.850
Paul Edwards: with someone. And remember,
not everyone minds It not.

543
00:28:34.850 –> 00:28:35.970
Paul Edwards: Not everybody minds.

544
00:28:36.010 –> 00:28:38.570
CeCe Delgado: They they love it. They acknowledge they want
it.

545
00:28:38.610 –> 00:28:40.090
CeCe Delgado: Yeah. Yeah. And that they need it.

546
00:28:40.130 –> 00:28:41.490
Paul Edwards: They don’t want to be beat up on.

547
00:28:41.490 –> 00:28:42.810
Paul Edwards: But they want feedback.

548
00:28:42.810 –> 00:28:46.730
Paul Edwards: And the more you go, the better you get at
giving constructive feedback.

549
00:28:46.970 –> 00:28:51.930
Paul Edwards: And I’ll tell you, a way to give constructive
feedback is to give feedback about something

550
00:28:51.930 –> 00:28:53.930
Paul Edwards: that someone has done that is good.

551
00:28:54.890 –> 00:28:57.770
Paul Edwards: And don’t create a, what we call the poop
sandwich,

552
00:28:57.970 –> 00:29:00.290
Paul Edwards: which is, you know, you’re great,
but.

553
00:29:01.210 –> 00:29:02.330
Paul Edwards: And we love you.

554
00:29:02.330 –> 00:29:03.130
CeCe Delgado: Yeah.

555
00:29:03.130 –> 00:29:05.530
Paul Edwards: You know, that’s the poop sandwich.

556
00:29:05.530 –> 00:29:08.290
Paul Edwards: You don’t wrap it. You don’t wrap negative
feedback in anything.

557
00:29:08.290 –> 00:29:13.930
Paul Edwards: But the practice of giving feedback and
giving positive feedback can help you frame

558
00:29:13.930 –> 00:29:16.290
Paul Edwards: negative feedback in a more positive way.

559
00:29:16.290 –> 00:29:16.810
CeCe Delgado: Yeah.

560
00:29:16.810 –> 00:29:22.250
Paul Edwards: I mean, inside of the FIRR Method©,
what we talk about there’s a place there

561
00:29:22.410 –> 00:29:25.690
Paul Edwards: where you’re, you’re able to say,
look, I know that you’re not,

562
00:29:25.730 –> 00:29:28.370
Paul Edwards: you’re not intentionally being late all the
time.

563
00:29:28.770 –> 00:29:31.210
Paul Edwards: I know that you’re not intentionally doing
this thing.

564
00:29:31.250 –> 00:29:35.550
Paul Edwards: You’re recognizing that there that this is
not something that they wake up in the

565
00:29:35.550 –> 00:29:37.030
Paul Edwards: morning thinking about doing.

566
00:29:37.070 –> 00:29:41.790
CeCe Delgado: Yeah. And you’ve done this thing I’ve asked
you to do correctly before,

567
00:29:41.790 –> 00:29:43.110
CeCe Delgado: so I know you’re capable.

568
00:29:43.150 –> 00:29:44.470
Paul Edwards: That’s one of my favorite ones.

569
00:29:44.590 –> 00:29:46.150
Paul Edwards: Yeah. That’s like turning it on him.

570
00:29:46.150 –> 00:29:46.550
CeCe Delgado: Yeah.

571
00:29:46.550 –> 00:29:48.110
Paul Edwards: You know, you’ve been on time a lot.

572
00:29:48.150 –> 00:29:49.150
CeCe Delgado: Yeah.

573
00:29:49.910 –> 00:29:51.950
Paul Edwards: I know you’re capable of being on time.

574
00:29:51.990 –> 00:29:56.310
Paul Edwards: Yeah. CeCe, I think we’ve told them
everything we know right now.

575
00:29:56.670 –> 00:29:59.990
Paul Edwards: If you’re listening to the show and you’re
feeling good about some of the things you

576
00:30:00.030 –> 00:30:02.510
Paul Edwards: learned that we do tell your friends.

577
00:30:02.830 –> 00:30:06.990
Paul Edwards: We love it when you go on any of the channels
and you rate the show.

578
00:30:07.510 –> 00:30:09.950
Paul Edwards: Please make it a five,
right?

579
00:30:09.950 –> 00:30:10.430
CeCe Delgado: Yeah.

580
00:30:10.430 –> 00:30:11.270
Paul Edwards: Not a three.

581
00:30:11.270 –> 00:30:11.910
CeCe Delgado: Yeah.

582
00:30:11.910 –> 00:30:13.990
Paul Edwards: I don’t need I don’t need any negative
feedback,

583
00:30:14.030 –> 00:30:18.070
Paul Edwards: y’all. So if you get I don’t, I, I will, I
will cry if any of

584
00:30:18.070 –> 00:30:19.150
Paul Edwards: you give me a one.

585
00:30:19.190 –> 00:30:21.950
CeCe Delgado: We will do a whole episode on how pissed off
we are.

586
00:30:21.990 –> 00:30:26.590
Paul Edwards: Well, and we know who you are on Google and
we may anyway,

587
00:30:26.590 –> 00:30:30.790
Paul Edwards: we’ll do an investigation and you will suffer
for outing us.

588
00:30:30.790 –> 00:30:32.880
Paul Edwards: That telling everybody that our show sucks.

589
00:30:34.160 –> 00:30:36.800
Paul Edwards: Look, I I hope you got a little bit out of
this.

590
00:30:36.840 –> 00:30:39.760
Paul Edwards: We try to share the frontline battle stories
every now and then.

591
00:30:40.800 –> 00:30:42.480
Paul Edwards: And good luck out there.

592
00:30:42.800 –> 00:30:47.080
Paul Edwards: And download the FIRR Method© and try it on
your wife and see how it works.

593
00:30:48.800 –> 00:30:52.200
Paul Edwards: That’s what. What the hell just happened is I
just caused a few divorces out there.

594
00:30:52.840 –> 00:30:54.480
Paul Edwards: I will see you on the next show,
guys.

595
00:30:58.360 –> 00:31:01.680
Narrator: Thanks for joining us for this week’s episode
of What the Hell Just Happened?

596
00:31:01.720 –> 00:31:05.480
Narrator: Do Paul and yourself a favor and please share
the podcast with your network.

597
00:31:05.480 –> 00:31:09.120
Narrator: If you have an HR issue question or just want
to add a comment about something,

598
00:31:09.160 –> 00:31:14.960
Narrator: Paul said, please record it on your phone and
send it to podcast at w th just.com.

599
00:31:15.240 –> 00:31:19.000
Narrator: We might even ask if we can play it on the
show. You can also visit WTF Just

600
00:31:19.000 –> 00:31:22.520
Narrator: happened.com to learn more about the show and
join our HR community.

601
00:31:22.800 –> 00:31:26.160
Narrator: (Transcribed by Sonix.ai – Remove this message by upgrading your Sonix account)
Don’t forget to like and subscribe and join
us again next week.