Episode 605 : My Employee CAN do the Job, but Won’t!

Voice Over: You’re about to listen to an episode of What the Hell Just Happened?! Join Paul Edwards and his guests as they discuss interesting HR topics and solve some of our listeners’ submitted questions. 

 

Paul: And occasionally I’ll go off HR topic and talk about whatever I want to talk about. Think barbecue. Space exploration. Technology. Money. Managing. Business. Things that interest all of us.

 

Voice Over: We get a lot of emails with questions. Stay tuned for details on how you can submit yours to the show. And now let’s get started. 

 

Paul: So in today’s podcast, I think this is and I say this in the podcast, maybe I’m going to be repeating myself in there, but I think this is one of the most important podcasts that we’ve done because it helps managers kind of take a structured approach using these four quadrants that we’ve learned from a company called Shake Shack. I think you guys have all heard about that company. I love it when we can take ideas from larger companies and boil them down and take pieces and parts out of them and try to present it in a way that smaller businesses can use it to help themselves accomplish the same goals or face the same challenges. So today’s podcast is a bit about that, where we focus on this method that the large corporation used. So one of the things Shake Shack did was they created a filter for coaching, training and making a decision on whether or not an employee needs to go. They may need to go work someplace else and excel there. So I hope you enjoy today’s podcast. CeCe’s on with me. She is HR from over at CEDR HR Solutions, and we’re just going to talk about this and then we’re going to answer a really good listener question about transitioning and how a manager is supposed to help a team kind of understand, and for lack of a better way of putting it, deal with being purchased. So with no further ado, let’s get in today’s podcast. Who? Who did…Where did the quadrant come from? 

 

CeCe: So I didn’t verify the validity of this, just to put that out there, but supposedly this comes from the founder of Shake Shack. 

 

Paul: Yeah. Yeah. Shake Shack. Small company. I remember when there was like, maybe…I remember when there was one in Raleigh, North Carolina. I don’t know if it’s the original one or not. That was a lot of years ago, and they’re still around. This principle of using this kind of decision filter is often a big company sort of tool or idea, or the way that they approach things or the things they teach their managers so that their managers are all kind of being consistent in how they’re doing things. I am so passionate about this. I love taking the pieces of big ideas that got large companies where they are and figuring out what pieces and parts of that we can take and then use to help with HR or use with hiring or use with running businesses and stuff. I just to me, this is like, this is some of the best stuff.

 

CeCe: Absolutely.

 

Paul: So, anyway, I just thought, if Shake Shack did it, then thank you, Shake Shack for putting that out there. Many companies do some form of this. I mean, I think today’s subject, this podcast, may be one of the most important pieces of information we could give to anybody to begin the new year. 

 

CeCe: Okay. 

 

Paul: I know! I know. 

 

CeCe: [laughing] 

 

Paul: You didn’t know it was going to be this epic. 

 

CeCe: No. [laughing]

 

Paul: Look, this thing about…First of all, let me state: I love a decision filter, which is something we’re about to talk about. I have learned them throughout my life. I mean, they exist all over the place. Experts use them, they teach them. Sometimes, it’s a little gimmicky, but for the most part, it’s a great way to, I don’t know, sometimes a great way to transfer knowledge or an idea or a methodology. Put it in quadrants or put it in some kind of form where we have to run through the decision tree. I literally use the decision tree many years ago to create the version of the woman who I wanted to come into my life and marry me. 

 

CeCe: And it worked. 

 

Paul: It did. It did and I told her and I mean, we were together for 13, 14 years. So I would say it was pretty darn successful. 

 

CeCe: Yeah, that’s cool. I think with this particular one, it’s a nice way to remove some of the pressure and being in our feelings about things because when we’re dealing with tough stuff at work, sometimes it can be hard to kind of step a little bit out of it and to think about it more objectively. 

 

Paul: And this isn’t all about tough stuff.

 

CeCe: Right.

 

Paul: I mean, one of the things I like about quadrants is it begins to, or a decision tree, whatever that means, we’ll explain what I’m saying when I say quadrants here in a minute, what I mean. One of the things I like about decision trees, and particularly this one, is about having, deciding…Well, you tell them. Tell them what the quadrants are. Let’s explain that. 

 

CeCe: So the first quadrant is somebody who can do something and will do something, whether that’s their whole job or a task or whatever the issue is that you’re faced with. Somebody either can and will do it. 

 

Paul: Okay. 

 

CeCe: They can’t, but they will. 

 

Paul: Okay. 

 

CeCe: They can’t and they won’t. Or they can’t –

 

Paul: They can’t and they won’t because they can’t.

 

CeCe: Right.

 

Paul: Right. Okay. And then what’s the last one? 

 

CeCe: And then the last one is they can and they won’t. 

 

Paul: So you have someone working for you and this conversation comes up. What am I supposed to do? Am I supposed to train? Am I supposed to have a corrective? Am I supposed to yell at them? 

 

CeCe: [laughing]

 

Paul: Am I supposed to tell them what they did wrong and tell them to stop doing that? You know, where does this person fall within these quadrants that you just described. So let’s go through them. Let’s go through them one more time. 

 

CeCe: Okay. 

 

Paul: The first one is a good one, right? 

 

CeCe: Right. They can and they will. 

 

Paul: They can and they will. 

 

CeCe: That’s your high performer. 

 

Paul: That’s our high performer in some area or many areas. By the way, everybody, this is for you as a manager. Even for you, yourself. You must know that you’re not good at everything. 

 

CeCe: Right. 

 

Paul: So you can actually run this on yourself if you want to. I think it’s actually a really good thing. If you can’t and you won’t, then it means you need to find somebody who can and they will. 

 

CeCe: Oh, that’s such a good perspective I hadn’t thought of. 

 

Paul: And you look for them on your team where you develop that skill in someone or you hire for that. This is the quadrant that I call incompetent. It’s the third quadrant and another filter, which starts with, “This gets me out of bed. I love to do this and it’s what I should be doing, and almost the only thing I should be doing.” The next thing is, “I’m good at these things and I’m so good at them that I can’t get myself out of doing them because it’s hard to find someone else that’s even as good as I am at it.” The third one is, “I’m incompetent.” (accounting) That’s my trigger word. And then the fourth one is, “I can’t and I won’t.” 

 

CeCe: Yeah.

 

Paul: I hate it. I’m not good at it when I do that. I’m not effective and we find ourselves in this quadrant. Okay, so back to these quadrants. We kind of want to look at…You know, this is about coaching. Like what approach you’re going to take? You have a person and they’re not performing well at something. Maybe they’re off at your front. They’re off the script or they’re not doing things in the right order or they’re not asking the right questions or all of a sudden they’re not filling in something that they’re supposed to fill in. So it’s kind of, you know, it’s messing with your backstage operations back there. Things aren’t going well because the people backstage, your clinicians who are waiting for patients, are maybe not getting a piece of information that they’re supposed to get. Okay. So let’s delve into this. 

 

CeCe: Okay. 

 

Paul: All right. Well, where do you want to start? Let’s skip past the first one because they can and they will. We love them.

 

CeCe: Well hold on! We don’t want to skip past them because that is the tendency, though, right? It’s just to be like, “That’s my high performer. I don’t need to do anything with that person.”

 

Paul: Okay. All right. 

 

CeCe: But you still want to make sure you keep that person engaged. So we won’t go into a long thing because that’s the person we want, but just make sure that you’re not literally going, “You’re good. I don’t need to pay any attention to you.” 

 

Paul: I get it. 

 

CeCe: You keep them enrolled in your mission. Keep helping them grow, if they have bigger aspirations and give them some positive affirmation that they’re doing the right thing. 

 

Paul: Call out their good stuff, recognize them and say thank you. This is a form of celebrating. 

 

CeCe: Yeah.

 

Paul: I was once told by a CEO, they had gotten a bunch of funding and the company was growing like crazy, and I’d known him for like ten years. I was like, “So, you know, it seems like things have changed a lot here.” And he said, “Yeah, I’m a cheerleader.” He’s like, “I put on my cheerleading outfit with my pom poms, and my job is to recognize the good stuff.”

 

CeCe: Yeah. 

 

Paul: And yeah, I thought that was kind of interesting. So in that vein, don’t forget to cheerlead a little bit. 

 

CeCe: Yeah. So you want to spend your time with the can and the will, and then the next one you want to spend your time with as a manager is the can’t and will. 

 

Paul: Yes! 

 

CeCe: So the can’t and will is the person who doesn’t have the skill set, they don’t have the right knowledge, but they want to do it. They’re enthusiastic about it and they’ve got a good attitude. 

 

Paul: They’ve got some self efficacy going on. They think they can do it. So there’s a little bit. So here’s where I think things get skewed a little bit because someone thinks they’re being effective, but they aren’t. 

 

CeCe: Yeah. 

 

Paul: I think that’s more common than they can’t and they will. 

 

CeCe: So the can’t and will is probably going to be somebody who’s either new entirely to your company or they’re taking on some new responsibilities. So you’re either bringing them in because they want the job, they want to be part of your team, and so now you’re going to train this person or they’ve proven themselves in some area and you want to expand their responsibilities and you need to train them.

 

Paul: Okay. So let’s go back to the can and will person. They’re fantastic, right? And they’re good at almost everything they do. They fall in this next quadrant where if they can’t, but they will, they learn how to do it. What do you do with that person? What do we often do with that person?

 

CeCe: Well, I think the most likely thing is – 

Paul: We do something to them to move them into that second quadrant. 

 

CeCe: Yeah, well, we push them forward, but then we give them no tools and we’re like, “Figure it out.” [laughing]

 

Paul: Or we raise them up. 

 

CeCe: Yes.

 

Paul: Or we put them in charge of other people. You know, one of the things we’re doing here is we’re trying to figure out how to talk to people. Coach them. What else do we get from this process?  There’s something super important I know I keep interrupting, but there’s, you know, as I said in the opening, you’re HR for CEDR. You know how important this is. What is the other thing that happens when you enter into the quadrant, you start deciding what you’re going to do or how you’re going to approach somebody’s need to improve.

 

CeCe: Well, if you’re talking about notes – 

 

Paul: I am.

 

CeCe: You want to be documenting through all of these processes.

 

Paul: Right?

 

CeCe: Yeah, because you don’t know what the outcome is going to be. 

 

Paul: Nope. 

 

CeCe: We can use these things to help us make a decision on how to move forward, and then there’s still that other piece that we don’t get to control, and that’s the other individual and how they decide to receive whatever information we’re giving them. So that was the can’t but will. Those are the two areas where as a manager, you want to spend most of your time: the person who’s already doing well, they need some encouragement and the person who needs some training, but has that good attitude. That’s where you want those people to grow.

 

Paul: I think you want to assume in the second quadrant. Let’s go to the reason why they can’t is because they just don’t have the skills yet. 

 

CeCe: Right. Yeah. 

 

Paul: We are just going to assume if we give them some training or exposure or whatever it is that they need, that they will be able to do it. What happens if that doesn’t work?

 

CeCe: So then we’re moving into the can’t and won’t. I’m sorry. The can and won’t person. So maybe they went through your training. Now they know how to do it, but their attitude changes for some reason. 

 

Paul: Got it. 

 

CeCe: So they become disengaged or unmotivated. Maybe they don’t feel challenged anymore or maybe something happened with your business and that soured them, and they’ve just got a bad attitude now. 

 

Paul: People change. 

 

CeCe: Yeah. So your can and won’t is the person you want to spend some time with here, because they may just need some coaching. 

 

Paul: Or there may be something going on that you can fix. 

 

CeCe: Yeah. Because they still can do it. So now the question is, can we change them from a won’t back to a will? You’re going to spend a little bit of time coaching, document all the way through and see whether we can change them back into being a willing participant. 

 

Paul: So, if we’re not able to get them to be a willing participant, this person is raising their hand to be let go.

 

CeCe: Yes. 

 

Paul: No. Seriously. 

 

CeCe: Yes. Yeah. 

 

Paul: This is the most frustrating one. This is the one that I feel like there’s no hesitation here. When I feel like someone can do something, but they won’t do it? Or if I feel like someone can do it, and the way they won’t do it is often very, very crafty. That’s the problem, is…Here’s the easy one: That’s not my job. It’s not on my job description. That’s the can, but won’t and that person just just said to me, me personally, when they say that, they said to me, “Okay, first take a breath and think about it. Have I overloaded this person in or are they just kind of lashing back because maybe I’m asking too much? Maybe I have some cause in the matter there. Most often that’s not the case. What they’ve said is, “Go home and think about when you’re gonna let me go.” I get very upset by that, “It’s not in my job description.” There’s a more emotionally intelligent way to say that to me, which is, “This is too much. It’s outside of the scope of what I’m doing and what I’m normally working on,” which is this whole multitasking thing that we’re going to talk a lot about in 2024. So can’t and won’t. You still have to take a step back. 

 

CeCe: Yeah. And it could also be that they don’t know how, but they’re not articulating it, and so it’s coming across as a won’t but it’s really that they can’t or they don’t know how. 

 

Paul: The other crafty way they do this is, I see this in managers and they try to push something over that you’re trying to get them to do or add and they try to push it to someone else either on their team or outside of their team, with no consideration to the competency of the other person. If I asked you to do it, then I, you know, if any of us as manager or owners ask someone to do it, hopefully we’ve spent a minute and said, “I think this is the right person to do this thing.” Then they push it to someone else and the next thing you know, their can’t and won’t is really causing a mess. Now what we’re looking at is they push it off to someone else and that means that they – that manager – is not going to gain the insight that they would get by being in the weeds with me or with a team or with whatever. They’re not going to get the benefit of being there and seeing what’s working and what’s not working with this new thing that we’re asking for from them. So they’re also shunning, I think, their own personal development.  Which is another reason for me to not want you around. 

 

CeCe: Yeah, and that’s exactly what you just said is shunning their own personal development. That’s why you want to spend a little time coaching here versus training versus mentoring your high performer. 

 

Paul: Okay. I feel like coaching and training is almost the same thing. What’s the difference there for the listener out there? Let’s define that. 

 

CeCe: So training is teaching a specific skill or task. So it’s the more mechanical pieces of whatever it is that you’re asking somebody to do. It’s ideally shorter term if they’re learning on pace and it’s much more objective, right? There’s a right way or a wrong way or a right outcome or a wrong outcome.

 

Paul: Okay. 

 

CeCe: Coaching is improving on a skill that somebody already has. It’s longer term because it’s growth and it’s more subjective. So to give you an example: I can train somebody how to answer my phone, right? There’s a right way or wrong way to answer the phone, not hang up on somebody. Pull up their record in my system, book their appointment on the calendar or whatever. That’s training. Coaching is if I want to take that skill and make it better, I want them – 

 

Paul: Oh, I like that. 

 

CeCe: I want them to provide better customer service. I want their language to be more in line with my culture. I want them to do something in a way that serves the team better. That’s coaching.

 

Paul: Or gets a better outcome.

 

CeCe: Right. 

 

Paul: I had an employee, wonderful employee, work for me for many years. I think she’d had some financial issues somewhere along the way, and she had bill collectors calling her and, you know, that sort of thing. Then, we have monthly billing to our members over at CEDR, monthly billing, and people’s cards would stop working and people would, you know, whatever. There’d be a reason why their card wasn’t working and they didn’t make their last monthly payment. She was in charge of that department, and so she would make the calls. I was sitting in there one day. I just happened to be walking and talking to her, and she was bill collecting. She was talking to them the way she had been taught.

 

CeCe: [laughing] Yeah. Yeah.

 

Paul: And I was like, “Oh no!” So this is a really good example of the coaching, because as soon as I said to her, “Hey, look, let’s talk about what just happened right there, because I want you to realize they didn’t know that their credit card failed, but you kind of spoke to them as if they were in trouble for not paying a bill on time, which is not the case here.” We just don’t. We don’t send nasty letters. We don’t threaten. It’s just not a part of my DNA, and actually, we don’t need to. It’s just, people find enough value in us that they want to pay and I just wanted to give that example. That was coaching because she didn’t need a corrective action or anything else. But you know, what I did is I’m going to flashback to the beginning. I went and opened up her file in our HR Vault, and I made a quick note in there, and it was actually a positive note. Was talk to her, and then I intentionally listened in on a couple of calls. I think I had someone else listen in, and she completely corrected it.

 

CeCe: That’s awesome!

 

Paul: I mean, that was so easy for her to do.

 

CeCe: Yeah.

 

Paul: And I think she really, she didn’t know what she was doing. It was funny, though. I was like, “Oh my gosh.” 

 

CeCe: So that’s a great example. It was minimal time. It wasn’t the time – 

 

Paul: Nothing to it. 

 

CeCe: That somebody took to train her how to run that report, pull up the member’s account. She had all that, all the things. It was minimal time to kind of turn somebody around and you had a positive outcome there. Sometimes we don’t have a positive outcome and then they’re going to move into our last quadrant, which is they can’t and won’t. Those are the people that you want to move out. You want to spend real minimal time. Your time should be documenting. Bringing the issues to them, making sure that you’re working through the process and moving them out of your organization. 

 

Paul: Yeah. So can and will, can’t and will, can’t and won’t… 

 

CeCe: Can and won’t, and then can’t and won’t. 

 

Paul: And then the last one’s can’t and won’t. If anybody is following along, I don’t know how.

 

CeCe: [laughing] Spend your time with the wills.

 

Paul: Spend your time with the wills and do your best to coach but think about where they’re moving in the quadrant. You know, if I had a dime for every time I’m going to harp on, we always have a cross-purposes here. I’m going to harp on the documentation. If I had a dime for every time I got on a call with someone who needed to make a decision, they’re kind of going through the decision making process to maybe let someone go or maybe what they should be doing, if I had a dime for every time I ask this question, which is, “How long has this been going on?” And they answer, “It’s been going on for weeks or months or days or whatever it is.” How long has this been going on and what have you documented on this? 

 

CeCe: Yeah.

 

Paul: If I had a dime for every time, it was like, “Well, we talked to her several times. We didn’t really write anything down.” I could fill up the bed of my brand new Rivian EV truck that I just got two months ago. See how I just slid that right into the?

 

CeCe: [laughing]

 

Paul: Did you know that my undergraduate degree was in energy technology? 

 

CeCe: No, I did not. 

 

Paul: Yeah. So I got in the reservations for the Rivian truck where we got our trucks cheaper and sat around and waited for three and a half years for it. 

 

CeCe: We’ve done many a podcast where you were waiting for this truck.

 

Paul: Yeah, I was waiting.

 

CeCe: Thanks for letting everybody know you have it now. 

 

Paul: I have the truck, everybody, and it’s fantastic. I mean, electric is so awesome. All right, back to the wrap up here, right? 

 

CeCe: Yeah. 

 

Paul: It’s important that you document along the way. So as you’re doing these things, you’re getting good results and put in as objective documentation as you can, because in the end, if you come to me and you say, “I want to let this person go, but I have this problem they’re in,” or we tell you they’re really in a protected class or something like that, the documentation that you’ve been doing along the way 100% supports your story. And your story is, is I’ve worked with this person. They don’t want to do the work. They’re not capable, they’re refusing to do it, and I need to get them out of the way.  You’re a manager managing your people. Think about kind of creating this quadrant there and you can’t get away from data. You can’t get away from the truth, and once you kind of write down some notes, it can become pretty clear. You can make an objective case to let someone go because it’s just not working out. No one wants to do that. No one loves to let someone go. 

 

CeCe: No, but you also don’t want to hang on to people who are going to – 

 

Paul: No, because they should be doing something else. They should be doing the good things that they can do. They should be taking that talent and developing it somewhere else where they’re inspired by the work that they’re doing.

 

CeCe: Absolutely.

 

Paul: If they’re just not inspired by the work that they’re doing with you then they’re not. It doesn’t make them a bad person.

 

CeCe: Right.

 

Paul: Yeah. Okay. Before we close out today’s podcast, we always ask for listener questions and we’re beginning to get a bunch from you. So, in this next section we’re going to answer one of our listener questions, which I like a lot. So let’s get to our listener question, our one listener. 

 

CeCe: Okay. [laughing] So this was a question submitted by Candice. 

 

Paul: Okay. 

 

CeCe: And Candice’s question is: How to handle talking to employees when you’re acquiring, partnering or transitioning your practice.

 

Paul: Okay, so someone’s coming in, purchased the practice. So there’s two different ways this can happen. Look, a solo doctor comes in and buys a solo doctor’s practice, and the solo doctor’s first move is just take over the employees and the patients and just keep going, okay? That one is easier than a multiple practice, or maybe it’s just one practice and they’re adding another practice with two locations and you know, all that is entailed with that. Then you have a whole different kind of a transitional conversation because you’re trying to meld two cultures together. I think the thing I want to point out here, a little bit of a tangent, is this is where culture comes into play and culture comes into play particularly when it comes to strategic planning, business planning and HR planning. 

 

CeCe: Yeah. 

 

Paul: For many of us as small business owners, and I did this for 15, 20 years, I did not have a defined culture. My employees created the culture and that meant that at that time a different set of people, 30 different personalities created 30 different kinds of culture, and then something would pop out of that and it was kind of like not following a recipe, right? And you were like, “I don’t know what I’m going to get. I put milk in. I put some eggs in there and it’s a popover.” And then the next time you do it, “I put milk and eggs there hoping to get popovers and it’s a bland cupcake. What happened? I don’t know why this thing didn’t work.” Well, that goes to culture. So part of the big challenge you have here is oftentimes, whatever culture is in place is what is going to be brought over. 

 

CeCe: Right. 

 

Paul: And you may have this larger organization who’s melding in another practice. They may not even have their culture set and even if and even if they do in their culture’s great, if the other culture’s are not good, then you’re trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. 

 

CeCe: They could both be great, but they don’t necessarily are not the same. 

 

Paul: That’s right. And they won’t be the same and it will be a challenge. So I think one of the first things, one of the first pieces of guidance that I would give to a manager out there is to discover and to ask questions about what that other culture looks like and to try to get a bigger picture and an understanding of what that culture looks like and what that other company’s or that doctor’s goals are. So it would behoove you to sit down with them and say, “Look, as we transition here, what are you looking for? Where are you going?” And there can be different answers. Doctor looking you like, “What do you mean, ‘Where are we going?’ I bought the practice. We have patients. We’re going to try and get better at what we do.” And if that’s it, then that’s the conversation that you should be having with the employees. If, on the other hand, the culture is, “This is what we do, we do scripts. We do a lot of training. Expect to have at least two lunch and learns per month where we’re going to work through lunch (and everybody’s going to get paid, by the way) but we’re constantly learning, we’re constantly getting better, and we’re in a constant growth mode.” Acquiring Doctor could say, “Look, I didn’t just buy the practice. I bought the building too, and I bought the whole building and we’re getting ready to grow this business and add more employees.” These are the kinds of conversations that you as a manager want to be a part of or have some knowledge in so that you can prepare your team who you know best, you probably as soon as I’m saying these things, you’re probably thinking, “Well, Mary Beth ain’t going to make it because Mary Beth doesn’t like change. She doesn’t like the training, she hates scripts.” 

 

CeCe: [laughing]

 

Paul: And you can go ahead and prepare yourself and possibly Mary Beth for that. [laughing] More communication is better than no communication.

 

CeCe: Absolutely.

 

Paul: And really? What else do you have to talk about other than what the expectations are? So one of the best questions you could ask as a manager of a new doctor or a new organization is what are your goals and what do you want to see from us in the next 30, 60 and 90 days? And how can I support that and what kind of support will you be providing to us? That’s it. And then take that information and distill it out to your team and put them you know, it’s a little mini mission, short term goals and say, “This is what we’re up to and if we can get through these 90 days, this is what’s going to happen.” I think the other thing that you want to do, I’ll leave you with this, and the answer is everybody wants to know, am I going to still be paid what I’m paid? Am I still going to get the hours that I’ve been getting? If I’ve been working part time and I’ve been able to get off early to pick my kids up and we came to that agreement, do I get to keep that agreement? Am I losing my benefits? Or am I gaining benefits? What’s going to happen to my PTO? You remember last year we didn’t have enough people and I didn’t take a single day off? And it happened the year before that? I now have 744 vacation days. I’m being facetious, but you need to be ready to address those things right out of the gate, and if you don’t have an answer, you still want to address them and say, “We’re still making some determinations around that stuff.” 

 

CeCe: I mean, even things like, “Are paydays going to change?”

 

Paul: Yeah, good point. 

 

CeCe: Yeah. There’s all of those things that employees…It just becomes part of their day to day. This is just the way things are. All of those things need to be kind of thought about.

 

Paul: Candice, we’re putting together a checklist for you. 

 

CeCe: [laughing]

 

Paul: No, I’m serious. Now that we’re doing this, it’s ridiculous because we know what this looks like and we have this checklist because we’ve helped…Oh, man. Over the last 17 years, I probably helped 500 practices during a transition when they’re either being purchased and grown or being just outright purchased. I mean, we work a lot with new dentists, so I hope that was helpful. Candice, good luck. CeCe, thanks for bringing the quadrants to us. 

 

CeCe: Thanks for having the conversation.

 

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